(137) BEYOND THE THREE STATES
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6th September, 1947
Last month, during my sister-in-law’s stay here, the proofs of the Telugu version of the ‘Vichara Mani Mala’ (Self-enquiry) were received. In the afternoon Bhagavan corrected them and passed them on to me. On reading them, my sister-in- law asked me the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti. I tried to explain, but as I was not sure myself, I could not satisfy her fully. On noticing this, Bhagavan asked, “What is the matter? Is there a mistake?” I replied, “No. She is asking the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti.”
Bhagavan said kindly, “It means absolute, dreamless sleep.”
I asked, “Would it be true to say that a Jnani has no dreams?”
Bhagavan: “He has no dream-state.”
My sister-in-law was still not satisfied, but as people began to talk about other things, we had to leave the matter there. Only at night she said, “In the Vasishtam [1] it is stated that a Realized Soul appears to perform actions, but they do not affect him at all. We ought to have asked Bhagavan the real meaning of this.”
On going to the Ashram next morning, it so happened that Bhagavan was just then explaining the very point to Sundaresa Iyer. Eagerly availing herself of the opportunity, my sister-in-law again asked, “Bhagavan has stated that Swapnatyanta nivritti means absolute, dreamless sleep. Does it mean that a Jnani does not have dreams at all?”
[1- Yoga Vasishtam is a book on yoga by Vasishta Maharshi.]
Bhagavan: “It is not only the dream-state, but all three states are unreal to the Jnani. The real state of the Jnani is where none of these three states exists.”
I asked, “Is not the waking state also equivalent to a dream?”
Bhagavan: “Yes, whereas a dream lasts for a short time, the waking state lasts longer. That is the only difference.”
I: “Then deep sleep is also a dream?”
Bhagavan: “No, deep sleep is an actuality. How can it be a dream when there is no mental activity? However, since it is a state of mental vacuity, it is nescience (avidya) and must therefore be rejected.” I persisted, “But is not deep sleep also said to be a dream state?”
Bhagavan: “Some may have said so for the sake of terminology, but really there is nothing separate. Short or long duration applies only to the dream and waking states.
Someone may say: ‘we have lived so long and these houses and belongings are so clearly evident to us that it surely can’t be all a dream’. But we have to remember that even dreams seem long while they last. It is only when you wake up that you realize that they only lasted a short time. In the same way, when one attains Realization (jnana), this life is seen to be momentary. Dreamless sleep means nescience; therefore it is to be rejected in favour of the state of pure Awareness.”
My sister-in-law then interposed, “It is said that the bliss that occurs in deep sleep is experienced in the state of samadhi [2] as well, but how is that to be reconciled with the statement that deep sleep is a state of nescience?”
[2- Samadhi means perfect absorption of thought in the one object of meditation, i.e., the Supreme Spirit (the 8th and last stage of yoga).]
Bhagavan: “That is why deep sleep has also to be rejected. It is true that there is bliss in deep sleep, but one is not aware of it. One only knows about it afterwards when one wakes up and says that one has slept well. Samadhi means experiencing this bliss while remaining awake.”
I: “So it means waking, or conscious sleep?”
Bhagavan: “Yes, that’s it.”
My sister-in-law then brought up the other cognate question that had worried her: “It is said by Vasishta that a Realized Soul seems to others to be engaged in various activities, but he is not affected by them at all. Is it because of their different outlook that it seems so to others, or is he really unaffected?”
Bhagavan: “He is really unaffected.”
My sister-in-law: “People speak of favourable visions, both in dream and while awake; what are they”?
Bhagavan: “To a Realized Soul they all seem the same.” However she persisted, “It is stated in Bhagavan’s biography that Ganapati Muni had a vision of Bhagavan when he was at Tiruvottiyur and Bhagavan was at Tiruvannamalai, and that, at the very same time, Bhagavan had a feeling of accepting homage. How can such things be explained?”
Bhagavan answered cryptically, “I have already stated that such things are what are known as divine visions.” He was then silent, indicating that he was not willing to continue the talk any further.
Showing posts with label states. Show all posts
Showing posts with label states. Show all posts
Letter 88
(88) SLEEP AND THE REAL STATE
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4th February, 1947
This afternoon somebody handed a slip of paper with a question on it to Bhagavan. The purport of it was: “What happens to this world during sleep? In what state is the Jnani during sleep?”
Affecting surprise, Bhagavan replied, “Oh! Is that what you want to know? Do you know what is happening to your body and in what state you are when you are asleep? During your sleep you forget that your body is here, in this place, on this mat, in this very condition, and you wander about somewhere and do something. It is only when you wake up that you realise that you are here. But you are always existent during the sleeping state as well as during the waking state. Your body is living inert, without any activity during your sleep. Therefore you are not this body during the sleeping condition. Then, to what are you attached during sleep? There must be something which is the prop for these comings and goings. You lie down with a view to sleep. But you get dreams; next you sleep, knowing happily nothing. It is a very happy sleep. So you admit that you were there in the sleeping state. And yet you say that you are aware of nothing in that state. What is real, you say you do not know. What is unreal and fleeting, you say you know. But in truth you know what is real. These fleeting things --- let them come and go --- they will not touch you.
You do not know about yourself but you ask what happens to the world? What does the Jnani experience in the sleeping state? If you first know what happens to you, the world will know about itself. You ask about Jnanis; they are the same in any state or condition, as they know the Reality, the Truth.
In their daily routine of taking food, moving about and all the rest, they, the Jnanis, act only for others. Not a single action is done for themselves. I have already told you many times that just as there are people whose profession is to mourn for a fee, so also the Jnanis do things for the sake of others with detachment, without themselves being affected by them.”
Another devotee took up the conversation and asked, “Swami, you say the real state must be known, and that meditation is necessary to realise that. But first of all what is meditation?”
“Meditation means Brahman,” Bhagavan replied. Continuing, he said, “To get rid of the evils that are created by the mind, it is said that some nishta (religious practice) must be adopted, and meditation based on that must be practised. As you go on doing it, those evils will disappear. And, after they disappear, the meditation itself becomes fixed as Brahman. Tapas also means the same thing.
When you ask how to get rid of all these vasanas, they say, ‘Do tapas.’ But what is the reward of tapas? It is said, ‘tapas itself is the reward.’ Tapas means swarupa (realisation of the Self). What is real is the swarupa, that is Atma, the Supreme Self, that is Brahman. That is everything. Of course in technical language you have to say. ‘Do meditation’ but these doubts do not arise if you know who it is that is really meditating.” The same idea is conveyed in Bhagavan’s “Upadesa Saram”:
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4th February, 1947
This afternoon somebody handed a slip of paper with a question on it to Bhagavan. The purport of it was: “What happens to this world during sleep? In what state is the Jnani during sleep?”
Affecting surprise, Bhagavan replied, “Oh! Is that what you want to know? Do you know what is happening to your body and in what state you are when you are asleep? During your sleep you forget that your body is here, in this place, on this mat, in this very condition, and you wander about somewhere and do something. It is only when you wake up that you realise that you are here. But you are always existent during the sleeping state as well as during the waking state. Your body is living inert, without any activity during your sleep. Therefore you are not this body during the sleeping condition. Then, to what are you attached during sleep? There must be something which is the prop for these comings and goings. You lie down with a view to sleep. But you get dreams; next you sleep, knowing happily nothing. It is a very happy sleep. So you admit that you were there in the sleeping state. And yet you say that you are aware of nothing in that state. What is real, you say you do not know. What is unreal and fleeting, you say you know. But in truth you know what is real. These fleeting things --- let them come and go --- they will not touch you.
You do not know about yourself but you ask what happens to the world? What does the Jnani experience in the sleeping state? If you first know what happens to you, the world will know about itself. You ask about Jnanis; they are the same in any state or condition, as they know the Reality, the Truth.
In their daily routine of taking food, moving about and all the rest, they, the Jnanis, act only for others. Not a single action is done for themselves. I have already told you many times that just as there are people whose profession is to mourn for a fee, so also the Jnanis do things for the sake of others with detachment, without themselves being affected by them.”
Another devotee took up the conversation and asked, “Swami, you say the real state must be known, and that meditation is necessary to realise that. But first of all what is meditation?”
“Meditation means Brahman,” Bhagavan replied. Continuing, he said, “To get rid of the evils that are created by the mind, it is said that some nishta (religious practice) must be adopted, and meditation based on that must be practised. As you go on doing it, those evils will disappear. And, after they disappear, the meditation itself becomes fixed as Brahman. Tapas also means the same thing.
When you ask how to get rid of all these vasanas, they say, ‘Do tapas.’ But what is the reward of tapas? It is said, ‘tapas itself is the reward.’ Tapas means swarupa (realisation of the Self). What is real is the swarupa, that is Atma, the Supreme Self, that is Brahman. That is everything. Of course in technical language you have to say. ‘Do meditation’ but these doubts do not arise if you know who it is that is really meditating.” The same idea is conveyed in Bhagavan’s “Upadesa Saram”:
Ahamapetakam nijavibhaanakam
mahadidam tapo ramanavaagiyam
The Realisation of That which subsists when all trace of ‘I’ is gone is great tapas. So sings Ramana.
-- Upadesa Saram, verse 30
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