Letter 154

28th October, 1947

(154) VAIRAGYA, BODHA, UPARATI (NON–ATTACHMENT, ILLUMINATION, DESIRELESSNESS)

I have recently been reading the Vasudeva Mananam.

Yesterday I read in the chapter of “Vairagyabodhoparati” that, if Realization be attained, then liberation, (moksha) can be gained even without vairagya (non-attachment) and uparati (desirelessness). I asked Bhagavan Ramana how that could be, as according to the Ancients, the sign of a Realized Soul (Jnani) is non-attachment.

Bhagavan replied, “It is true that non-attachment is the sign of a Realized Soul. But it is also stated in the same book that any apparent attachment one may be conscious of pertains to the body only and not to the Self. That attachment is a deterrent to the complete happiness of a jivan mukta, i.e., of one delivered from worldly bonds during his lifetime; whereas for the videha mukta (one who is delivered from worldly bonds only at death), Realization alone is important.

When it is stated that liberation can be gained by obtaining realization even without non-attachment and desirelessness, it means that liberation is gained only at the time of death. It cannot be said, however, that it will all be of waste if one has non-attachment and desirelessness yet no realization, for they will enable one to attain heaven (punyaloka). It is all mentioned in Vasudeva Mananam.”

I then asked how realization could ever be attained without non-attachment and desirelessness.

Bhagavan Ramana explained, “Non-attachment, Illumination and desirelessness (vairagya, bhodha, uparati), these three, will not remain separate from one another. After attaining realization though one may continue outwardly to show attachment, inwardly non-attachment will necessarily be there. It is however said to be a hindrance to the complete enjoyment of bliss by a jivan mukta. Owing to the strength of the results of past actions (prarabdha), he acts as one having inherent tendencies (vasanas); but, strictly speaking, attachment will not touch him. That is why it is said to be the result of past actions.”

I asked whether that meant that, even though one attained knowledge of the Self, one would not be able, were past actions to remain too strong, to discard inherent tendencies, and that, until those inherent tendencies were destroyed, one could not attain undisturbed peace.

Bhagavan replied, “Yes, those who are firm in their vairagya, bodha and uparati are indeed in a high state of realisation, that means they are jivan muktas. If instead those for whom Self-realisation alone is the most important, but out of prarabdha they move about as if they have attachments, they remain conscious of the fact that they actually do not have attachments. Strictly speaking such attachments do not affect them. That is why in Vasishtam it is said that even in the third stage, vasanas get exterminated and the mind gets destroyed. If it is asked when the fourth stage is reached and where is the need for the fifth and the sixth stage, some vague replies are given. So long as there is a doubt, there is an explanation. The disappearance of all doubts is realisation.”

“For a Realized Soul,” I asked, “to the extent to which he has non-attachment, will he to that extent have tranquillity and peace; while to the extent that his attachment grows, will he to that extent be further removed from tranquillity?”

“Yes,” said Bhagavan, “that is the meaning.” And so saying, he was again silent.

Letter 153

26th October, 1947 


(153)  Existence after realization

This morning after Veda Parayana, a gentleman who came a few days ago, enquired of Bhagavan Ramana, “Swami, it is said that though a Jnani (a realised soul) appears to be doing all the routine things, he really does nothing. How can that be explained?” 


Bhagavan Ramana: “How? There is a story about it. Two friends while travelling on business slept the night somewhere, and one of them had a dream that he and his companion had gone together to several places and had done various things.
On rising in the morning, the other man had nothing to say, for he had slept soundly. But the first man asked his friend about the various places they had seen together during the night, but the second man could say nothing about them, having had no dream like the other. He merely said, ‘I have gone nowhere; I have been here only’. As a matter of fact, neither had gone anywhere; but the first man had only an illusion of having gone. Similarly, to those who look upon this body as real, and not unreal as in a dream, it may appear real, but, strictly speaking, nothing affects the Jnani.”
Remarked some other person: “It is said that the eyes of a Jnani appear to look at things, but in reality they see nothing.”


Bhagavan: “Yes, the eyes of the Jnani are likened to the eyes of a dead goat, they are always open, never closed. They glitter but they see nothing, though it seems to others that they see everything. But what is the point?” 

The devotee continued: “It is also said that for such adepts, siddhas, there is no conditioning or limitation (upadhi) of space and time.”


Bhagavan: “That is right. It is true that there is no such thing as conditioning or limitation, but the doubt then arises as to how the day-to-day work is done. It has therefore to be said that they have limitation. It is also stated that the limitation will be there in a subtle way until there is deliverance from the body (videha mukti). It is like a line drawn on water; the line appears while it is being drawn, but is not there immediately after.” 

The devotee: “If that is so for emancipated souls (siddha purushas), there will be no upadhi (support) after their mortal body falls away. But Bhagavan himself has said that there
are several emancipated souls on this hill. If they have no support (upadhi) how could they remain in existence?” 

Bhagavan:

Those who have attained complete emancipation (jnana siddhi) merge with the universe after their bodies fall off, just as milk merges with milk, oil with oil, water with water. 

In the case of lower souls, because of some samskaras or latent tendencies remaining unexpired, they stay in this world, taking whatever form they please, and ultimately become merged. 

Viveka Chudamani, verse 567 

The devotee: “Why does that difference arise?”
Bhagavan: “It arises because of the strength of their desires (samkalpas).”  

Letter 22

(22) MOKSHA
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8th January, 1946
A few days ago, a lady, a recent arrival, came into the hall at about 3 p.m. and sat down. All the time she was there, she was trying to get up and ask something of Sri Bhagavan.

As Bhagavan appeared not to have noticed her, and was reading a book, she waited for a while. As soon as Bhagavan put the book aside, she got up, approached the sofa and said without any fear or hesitation, “Swami, I have only one desire. May I tell you what it is?” “Yes,” said Bhagavan, “What do you want?” “I want moksha,” she said. “Oh, is that so?” remarked Bhagavan. “Yes, Swamiji, I do not want anything else. Is it enough if you give me moksha,” said she. Suppressing a smile that had almost escaped his lips, Bhagavan said, “Yes, yes, that is all right; that is good.” “It will not do if you say that you will give it sometime later. You must give it to me here and now,” she said. “It is all right,” said Bhagavan.

“Will you give it now? I must be going,” said she. Bhagavan nodded.

As soon as she left the hall, Bhagavan burst out laughing and said, turning towards us, “She says that it is enough if only moksha is given to her. She does not want anything else.” Subbalakshmamma, who was seated by my side, took up the thread of the conversation and quietly said, “We have come and are staying here for the same purpose. We do not want anything more. It is enough if you give us moksha.”

“If you renounce, and give up everything, what remains is only moksha. What is there for others to give you? It is there always.

That is,” said Bhagavan. “We do not know all that. Bhagavan himself must give us moksha.” So saying she left the hall.

Looking at the attendants who were by his side, Bhagavan remarked, “I should give them moksha, they say. It is enough if moksha alone is given to them. Is not that itself a desire? If you give up all the desires that you have, what remains is only moksha. And you require sadhana to get rid of all those desires.” The same bhava (idea) is found in Maharatnamala:

वासनातानवं ब्रह्म मोक्ष इत्यभिधीयते

It is said that the complete destruction of vasanas is Brahmam and moksha.