28th October, 1947
(154) VAIRAGYA, BODHA, UPARATI (NON–ATTACHMENT, ILLUMINATION, DESIRELESSNESS)
I have recently been reading the Vasudeva Mananam.
Yesterday I read in the chapter of “Vairagyabodhoparati” that, if Realization be attained, then liberation, (moksha) can be gained even without vairagya (non-attachment) and uparati (desirelessness). I asked Bhagavan Ramana how that could be, as according to the Ancients, the sign of a Realized Soul (Jnani) is non-attachment.
Bhagavan replied, “It is true that non-attachment is the sign of a Realized Soul. But it is also stated in the same book that any apparent attachment one may be conscious of pertains to the body only and not to the Self. That attachment is a deterrent to the complete happiness of a jivan mukta, i.e., of one delivered from worldly bonds during his lifetime; whereas for the videha mukta (one who is delivered from worldly bonds only at death), Realization alone is important.
When it is stated that liberation can be gained by obtaining realization even without non-attachment and desirelessness, it means that liberation is gained only at the time of death. It cannot be said, however, that it will all be of waste if one has non-attachment and desirelessness yet no realization, for they will enable one to attain heaven (punyaloka). It is all mentioned in Vasudeva Mananam.”
I then asked how realization could ever be attained without non-attachment and desirelessness.
Bhagavan Ramana explained, “Non-attachment, Illumination and desirelessness (vairagya, bhodha, uparati), these three, will not remain separate from one another. After attaining realization though one may continue outwardly to show attachment, inwardly non-attachment will necessarily be there. It is however said to be a hindrance to the complete enjoyment of bliss by a jivan mukta. Owing to the strength of the results of past actions (prarabdha), he acts as one having inherent tendencies (vasanas); but, strictly speaking, attachment will not touch him. That is why it is said to be the result of past actions.”
I asked whether that meant that, even though one attained knowledge of the Self, one would not be able, were past actions to remain too strong, to discard inherent tendencies, and that, until those inherent tendencies were destroyed, one could not attain undisturbed peace.
Bhagavan replied, “Yes, those who are firm in their vairagya, bodha and uparati are indeed in a high state of realisation, that means they are jivan muktas. If instead those for whom Self-realisation alone is the most important, but out of prarabdha they move about as if they have attachments, they remain conscious of the fact that they actually do not have attachments. Strictly speaking such attachments do not affect them. That is why in Vasishtam it is said that even in the third stage, vasanas get exterminated and the mind gets destroyed. If it is asked when the fourth stage is reached and where is the need for the fifth and the sixth stage, some vague replies are given. So long as there is a doubt, there is an explanation. The disappearance of all doubts is realisation.”
“For a Realized Soul,” I asked, “to the extent to which he has non-attachment, will he to that extent have tranquillity and peace; while to the extent that his attachment grows, will he to that extent be further removed from tranquillity?”
“Yes,” said Bhagavan, “that is the meaning.” And so saying, he was again silent.
Showing posts with label prarabdha. Show all posts
Showing posts with label prarabdha. Show all posts
Letter 153
26th October, 1947
(153) Existence after realization
This morning after Veda Parayana, a gentleman who came a few days ago, enquired of Bhagavan Ramana, “Swami, it is said that though a Jnani (a realised soul) appears to be doing all the routine things, he really does nothing. How can that be explained?”
Bhagavan Ramana: “How? There is a story about it. Two friends while travelling on business slept the night somewhere, and one of them had a dream that he and his companion had gone together to several places and had done various things.
On rising in the morning, the other man had nothing to say, for he had slept soundly. But the first man asked his friend about the various places they had seen together during the night, but the second man could say nothing about them, having had no dream like the other. He merely said, ‘I have gone nowhere; I have been here only’. As a matter of fact, neither had gone anywhere; but the first man had only an illusion of having gone. Similarly, to those who look upon this body as real, and not unreal as in a dream, it may appear real, but, strictly speaking, nothing affects the Jnani.”
Remarked some other person: “It is said that the eyes of a Jnani appear to look at things, but in reality they see nothing.”
Bhagavan: “Yes, the eyes of the Jnani are likened to the eyes of a dead goat, they are always open, never closed. They glitter but they see nothing, though it seems to others that they see everything. But what is the point?”
The devotee continued: “It is also said that for such adepts, siddhas, there is no conditioning or limitation (upadhi) of space and time.”
Bhagavan: “That is right. It is true that there is no such thing as conditioning or limitation, but the doubt then arises as to how the day-to-day work is done. It has therefore to be said that they have limitation. It is also stated that the limitation will be there in a subtle way until there is deliverance from the body (videha mukti). It is like a line drawn on water; the line appears while it is being drawn, but is not there immediately after.”
The devotee: “If that is so for emancipated souls (siddha purushas), there will be no upadhi (support) after their mortal body falls away. But Bhagavan himself has said that there
are several emancipated souls on this hill. If they have no support (upadhi) how could they remain in existence?”
Bhagavan:
Viveka Chudamani, verse 567
The devotee: “Why does that difference arise?”
Bhagavan: “It arises because of the strength of their desires (samkalpas).”
(153) Existence after realization
This morning after Veda Parayana, a gentleman who came a few days ago, enquired of Bhagavan Ramana, “Swami, it is said that though a Jnani (a realised soul) appears to be doing all the routine things, he really does nothing. How can that be explained?”
Bhagavan Ramana: “How? There is a story about it. Two friends while travelling on business slept the night somewhere, and one of them had a dream that he and his companion had gone together to several places and had done various things.
On rising in the morning, the other man had nothing to say, for he had slept soundly. But the first man asked his friend about the various places they had seen together during the night, but the second man could say nothing about them, having had no dream like the other. He merely said, ‘I have gone nowhere; I have been here only’. As a matter of fact, neither had gone anywhere; but the first man had only an illusion of having gone. Similarly, to those who look upon this body as real, and not unreal as in a dream, it may appear real, but, strictly speaking, nothing affects the Jnani.”
Remarked some other person: “It is said that the eyes of a Jnani appear to look at things, but in reality they see nothing.”
Bhagavan: “Yes, the eyes of the Jnani are likened to the eyes of a dead goat, they are always open, never closed. They glitter but they see nothing, though it seems to others that they see everything. But what is the point?”
The devotee continued: “It is also said that for such adepts, siddhas, there is no conditioning or limitation (upadhi) of space and time.”
Bhagavan: “That is right. It is true that there is no such thing as conditioning or limitation, but the doubt then arises as to how the day-to-day work is done. It has therefore to be said that they have limitation. It is also stated that the limitation will be there in a subtle way until there is deliverance from the body (videha mukti). It is like a line drawn on water; the line appears while it is being drawn, but is not there immediately after.”
The devotee: “If that is so for emancipated souls (siddha purushas), there will be no upadhi (support) after their mortal body falls away. But Bhagavan himself has said that there
are several emancipated souls on this hill. If they have no support (upadhi) how could they remain in existence?”
Bhagavan:
Those who have attained complete emancipation (jnana siddhi) merge with the universe after their bodies fall off, just as milk merges with milk, oil with oil, water with water.
In the case of lower souls, because of some samskaras or latent tendencies remaining unexpired, they stay in this world, taking whatever form they please, and ultimately become merged.
Viveka Chudamani, verse 567
The devotee: “Why does that difference arise?”
Bhagavan: “It arises because of the strength of their desires (samkalpas).”
Letter 116
(116) PRARABDHA (FATE)
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17th May, 1947
This morning at 9 o’clock one devotee addressed Bhagavan as follows: “Swami, you said yesterday that a Jnani will perform such actions as are ordained according to his prarabdha. But it is said that Jnanis have no prarabdha at all!”
Bhagavan said, in a leisurely way, “How did they get this body if they have no prarabdha? How do they perform the various actions? The actions of Jnanis are themselves called prarabdhas. It is stated that there is prarabdha from Brahma right up to Sadasiva and the Avatars of Rama and Krishna and others also.
“As stated in this sloka, Ishwara assumes a shape when the virtues of good people and the sins of bad people mingle and become prarabdha and he has to establish dharma. That is called parechcha prarabdha (the acts of other people). The body itself is prarabdha. The purpose for which that body has come into existence will get done of its own accord.”
The questioner of yesterday said, “In the Gita, Karma Yoga has been given greater prominence.” “Oho! Is that so? Karma Yoga is not the only one. What about the others? If you understand them all, you will know the real secret of Karma Yoga; only you don’t do that,” said Bhagavan.
Before saying this, Lord Krishna in the Gita has said: (IX: 9)
Nor do these works bind me, O Dhananjaya, enthroned on high, unattached to actions.
Besides this: (XIV: 23) He who, seated as a neutral, is unshaken by the qualities (gunas), who stands apart immovable saying, ‘the gunas revolve’.
And: (XIV: 24) Balanced in pleasure and pain, self-reliant, to whom a lump of earth, rock, and gold are alike, the same to loved and unloved, firm, the same in censure and in praise.
And again: (XVI: 25) The same in honour and dishonour, the same to friend and foe, abandoning all undertakings — he is said to have crossed over the qualities (gunas).
“That is what has been stated. The Mahapurushas (great personages) mentioned above, are realised souls. Whatever outward shape they may have, sishya (disciple), bhakta (devotee), udaseena (the unconcerned) and papatma (sinner), all the people in these four categories are protected through the grace of the Jnanis. The sishyas worship them as gurus, ascertain the truth and attain mukti (freedom from bondage). Bhaktas pray to them as the swarupa (form) of God and get release from their sins. Udaseenas listen to what the Guru says, get enthused and become devotees. Sinners hear the stories from people that come and go and get release from their sins. People in these four categories are protected by the grace of Jnanis,” said Bhagavan.
Someone said, “You said that bad people will be released from their sins. Is that by listening to what others say or bytalking amongst themselves?” “It is by hearing what others say. They are sinners, aren’t they? How will they talk about good people?” said Bhagavan.
Yesterday’s questioner asked, “You said sinners will get released. Does that mean from their bodily or mental ailments?” “It is for the mind only,”
Bhagavan replied, “happiness is possible only if the mind is right. If the mind is not right, whatever else may be, there is no peace. The mind becomes ripe according to each person’s fitness. A nastik (an agnostic) becomes an astik (a believer), an astik becomes a bhakta, a bhakta becomes a jignasu (one desirous of Knowledge) and a jignasu becomes a Jnani. This refers to the mind only. What is the use of saying it refers to the body? If the mind is happy, not only the body but the whole world will be happy. So one must find out the way of becoming happy oneself. One cannot do this except by finding out about oneself by Self-enquiry. To think of reforming the world without doing that is like thinking of covering the whole world with leather to avoid the pain caused by walking on stones and thorns when the much simpler method of wearing leather shoes is available. When by holding an umbrella over your head you can avoid the sun, will it be possible to cover the face of the whole earth by tying a cloth over it to avoid the sun? If a person realises his position and stays in his own self, things that are to happen will happen. Things that are not to happen will not happen. The shakti that is in the world, is only one. All these troubles arise if we think that we are separate from that shakti.”
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17th May, 1947
This morning at 9 o’clock one devotee addressed Bhagavan as follows: “Swami, you said yesterday that a Jnani will perform such actions as are ordained according to his prarabdha. But it is said that Jnanis have no prarabdha at all!”
Bhagavan said, in a leisurely way, “How did they get this body if they have no prarabdha? How do they perform the various actions? The actions of Jnanis are themselves called prarabdhas. It is stated that there is prarabdha from Brahma right up to Sadasiva and the Avatars of Rama and Krishna and others also.
For the protection of the good, for the destruction of evildoers, for the sake of firmly establishing dharma (righteousness), I am born from age to age.
-- Bhagavad Gita, IV: 8
“As stated in this sloka, Ishwara assumes a shape when the virtues of good people and the sins of bad people mingle and become prarabdha and he has to establish dharma. That is called parechcha prarabdha (the acts of other people). The body itself is prarabdha. The purpose for which that body has come into existence will get done of its own accord.”
The questioner of yesterday said, “In the Gita, Karma Yoga has been given greater prominence.” “Oho! Is that so? Karma Yoga is not the only one. What about the others? If you understand them all, you will know the real secret of Karma Yoga; only you don’t do that,” said Bhagavan.
I am the oblation, I am the sacrifice, I the offering, the fire-giving herb, the mantram; also the clarified butter, the fire, and the burnt-offering.
-- (IX: 16)
Before saying this, Lord Krishna in the Gita has said: (IX: 9)
Nor do these works bind me, O Dhananjaya, enthroned on high, unattached to actions.
Besides this: (XIV: 23) He who, seated as a neutral, is unshaken by the qualities (gunas), who stands apart immovable saying, ‘the gunas revolve’.
And: (XIV: 24) Balanced in pleasure and pain, self-reliant, to whom a lump of earth, rock, and gold are alike, the same to loved and unloved, firm, the same in censure and in praise.
And again: (XVI: 25) The same in honour and dishonour, the same to friend and foe, abandoning all undertakings — he is said to have crossed over the qualities (gunas).
“That is what has been stated. The Mahapurushas (great personages) mentioned above, are realised souls. Whatever outward shape they may have, sishya (disciple), bhakta (devotee), udaseena (the unconcerned) and papatma (sinner), all the people in these four categories are protected through the grace of the Jnanis. The sishyas worship them as gurus, ascertain the truth and attain mukti (freedom from bondage). Bhaktas pray to them as the swarupa (form) of God and get release from their sins. Udaseenas listen to what the Guru says, get enthused and become devotees. Sinners hear the stories from people that come and go and get release from their sins. People in these four categories are protected by the grace of Jnanis,” said Bhagavan.
Someone said, “You said that bad people will be released from their sins. Is that by listening to what others say or bytalking amongst themselves?” “It is by hearing what others say. They are sinners, aren’t they? How will they talk about good people?” said Bhagavan.
Yesterday’s questioner asked, “You said sinners will get released. Does that mean from their bodily or mental ailments?” “It is for the mind only,”
Bhagavan replied, “happiness is possible only if the mind is right. If the mind is not right, whatever else may be, there is no peace. The mind becomes ripe according to each person’s fitness. A nastik (an agnostic) becomes an astik (a believer), an astik becomes a bhakta, a bhakta becomes a jignasu (one desirous of Knowledge) and a jignasu becomes a Jnani. This refers to the mind only. What is the use of saying it refers to the body? If the mind is happy, not only the body but the whole world will be happy. So one must find out the way of becoming happy oneself. One cannot do this except by finding out about oneself by Self-enquiry. To think of reforming the world without doing that is like thinking of covering the whole world with leather to avoid the pain caused by walking on stones and thorns when the much simpler method of wearing leather shoes is available. When by holding an umbrella over your head you can avoid the sun, will it be possible to cover the face of the whole earth by tying a cloth over it to avoid the sun? If a person realises his position and stays in his own self, things that are to happen will happen. Things that are not to happen will not happen. The shakti that is in the world, is only one. All these troubles arise if we think that we are separate from that shakti.”
Letter 48
(48) JAPA, TAPA AND THE LIKE
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3rd June, 1946
Yesterday a gentleman came here -- a devout brahmin.
From his words and from the rosary of rudrakshas around his neck, it was clear that he was practising mantra japam. He said that he had darshan of Bhagavan once before in Virupaksha Cave. Today, going up to Bhagavan, he asked, “Swami, can a continuous japa of Panchakshari or Tarakam absolve one from sin such as drinking alcoholic liquor and the like?” “What exactly is your idea?” asked Bhagavan.
The brahmin again asked pointedly, “Even though people commit adultery and theft and take alcoholic drinks and so on, can their sins be wiped out by doing japam with the mantras mentioned above. Or will the sins stick to them?” “If the feeling ‘I am doing japa’ is not there, the sins committed by a man will not stick to him. If the feeling ‘I am doing the japa’ is there, why should not the sin arising from bad habits stick on?” said Bhagavan. “Will not this punya (result of virtuous acts) extinguish that papam (result of those sinful acts)?” asked the brahmin. “So long as the feeling, ‘I am doing’ is there, one must experience the result of one’s acts, whether they are good or bad. How is it possible to wipe out one act with another? When the feeling that ‘I am doing’ is lost, nothing affects a man. Unless one realises the Self, the feeling ‘I am doing’ will never vanish. For one who realises the Self where is the need for japam? Where is the need for tapas? Owing to the force of prarabdha life goes on, but he does not wish for anything. Prarabdha is of three categories, ichha, anichha, and parechha (personally desired, without desire and due to others’ desire).
For him who has realised his Self, there is no ichha-prarabdha. The two others, anichha and parechha remain. Whatever he does is for others only. If there are things to be done by him for others, he does them but the results do not affect him. Whatever be the actions that such people do, there is no punya and no papa attached to them. But they do only what is proper according to the accepted standard of the world -- nothing else,” said Bhagavan.
Though Bhagavan told the questioner that for him who realises his self there is no ichha-prarabdha but only anichha and parechha-prarabdha, his usual views about the prarabdhas may be found in his work “Unnathi Nalupadhi”: The Jnani does not have present, future and prarabdha karma; to say that prarabdha remains, is only a reply to a question. Just as one of the wives cannot remain unwidowed when the husband dies, so also the three karmas cannot remain when the karta is gone.
The Forty Verses, Supplement, verse 33
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3rd June, 1946
Yesterday a gentleman came here -- a devout brahmin.
From his words and from the rosary of rudrakshas around his neck, it was clear that he was practising mantra japam. He said that he had darshan of Bhagavan once before in Virupaksha Cave. Today, going up to Bhagavan, he asked, “Swami, can a continuous japa of Panchakshari or Tarakam absolve one from sin such as drinking alcoholic liquor and the like?” “What exactly is your idea?” asked Bhagavan.
The brahmin again asked pointedly, “Even though people commit adultery and theft and take alcoholic drinks and so on, can their sins be wiped out by doing japam with the mantras mentioned above. Or will the sins stick to them?” “If the feeling ‘I am doing japa’ is not there, the sins committed by a man will not stick to him. If the feeling ‘I am doing the japa’ is there, why should not the sin arising from bad habits stick on?” said Bhagavan. “Will not this punya (result of virtuous acts) extinguish that papam (result of those sinful acts)?” asked the brahmin. “So long as the feeling, ‘I am doing’ is there, one must experience the result of one’s acts, whether they are good or bad. How is it possible to wipe out one act with another? When the feeling that ‘I am doing’ is lost, nothing affects a man. Unless one realises the Self, the feeling ‘I am doing’ will never vanish. For one who realises the Self where is the need for japam? Where is the need for tapas? Owing to the force of prarabdha life goes on, but he does not wish for anything. Prarabdha is of three categories, ichha, anichha, and parechha (personally desired, without desire and due to others’ desire).
For him who has realised his Self, there is no ichha-prarabdha. The two others, anichha and parechha remain. Whatever he does is for others only. If there are things to be done by him for others, he does them but the results do not affect him. Whatever be the actions that such people do, there is no punya and no papa attached to them. But they do only what is proper according to the accepted standard of the world -- nothing else,” said Bhagavan.
Though Bhagavan told the questioner that for him who realises his self there is no ichha-prarabdha but only anichha and parechha-prarabdha, his usual views about the prarabdhas may be found in his work “Unnathi Nalupadhi”: The Jnani does not have present, future and prarabdha karma; to say that prarabdha remains, is only a reply to a question. Just as one of the wives cannot remain unwidowed when the husband dies, so also the three karmas cannot remain when the karta is gone.
The Forty Verses, Supplement, verse 33
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