Letter 153

26th October, 1947 


(153)  Existence after realization

This morning after Veda Parayana, a gentleman who came a few days ago, enquired of Bhagavan Ramana, “Swami, it is said that though a Jnani (a realised soul) appears to be doing all the routine things, he really does nothing. How can that be explained?” 


Bhagavan Ramana: “How? There is a story about it. Two friends while travelling on business slept the night somewhere, and one of them had a dream that he and his companion had gone together to several places and had done various things.
On rising in the morning, the other man had nothing to say, for he had slept soundly. But the first man asked his friend about the various places they had seen together during the night, but the second man could say nothing about them, having had no dream like the other. He merely said, ‘I have gone nowhere; I have been here only’. As a matter of fact, neither had gone anywhere; but the first man had only an illusion of having gone. Similarly, to those who look upon this body as real, and not unreal as in a dream, it may appear real, but, strictly speaking, nothing affects the Jnani.”
Remarked some other person: “It is said that the eyes of a Jnani appear to look at things, but in reality they see nothing.”


Bhagavan: “Yes, the eyes of the Jnani are likened to the eyes of a dead goat, they are always open, never closed. They glitter but they see nothing, though it seems to others that they see everything. But what is the point?” 

The devotee continued: “It is also said that for such adepts, siddhas, there is no conditioning or limitation (upadhi) of space and time.”


Bhagavan: “That is right. It is true that there is no such thing as conditioning or limitation, but the doubt then arises as to how the day-to-day work is done. It has therefore to be said that they have limitation. It is also stated that the limitation will be there in a subtle way until there is deliverance from the body (videha mukti). It is like a line drawn on water; the line appears while it is being drawn, but is not there immediately after.” 

The devotee: “If that is so for emancipated souls (siddha purushas), there will be no upadhi (support) after their mortal body falls away. But Bhagavan himself has said that there
are several emancipated souls on this hill. If they have no support (upadhi) how could they remain in existence?” 

Bhagavan:

Those who have attained complete emancipation (jnana siddhi) merge with the universe after their bodies fall off, just as milk merges with milk, oil with oil, water with water. 

In the case of lower souls, because of some samskaras or latent tendencies remaining unexpired, they stay in this world, taking whatever form they please, and ultimately become merged. 

Viveka Chudamani, verse 567 

The devotee: “Why does that difference arise?”
Bhagavan: “It arises because of the strength of their desires (samkalpas).”  

Letter 116

(116) PRARABDHA (FATE)
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17th May, 1947
This morning at 9 o’clock one devotee addressed Bhagavan as follows: “Swami, you said yesterday that a Jnani will perform such actions as are ordained according to his prarabdha. But it is said that Jnanis have no prarabdha at all!”

Bhagavan said, in a leisurely way, “How did they get this body if they have no prarabdha? How do they perform the various actions? The actions of Jnanis are themselves called prarabdhas. It is stated that there is prarabdha from Brahma right up to Sadasiva and the Avatars of Rama and Krishna and others also.

For the protection of the good, for the destruction of evildoers, for the sake of firmly establishing dharma (righteousness), I am born from age to age.
-- Bhagavad Gita, IV: 8

“As stated in this sloka, Ishwara assumes a shape when the virtues of good people and the sins of bad people mingle and become prarabdha and he has to establish dharma. That is called parechcha prarabdha (the acts of other people). The body itself is prarabdha. The purpose for which that body has come into existence will get done of its own accord.”

The questioner of yesterday said, “In the Gita, Karma Yoga has been given greater prominence.” “Oho! Is that so? Karma Yoga is not the only one. What about the others? If you understand them all, you will know the real secret of Karma Yoga; only you don’t do that,” said Bhagavan.

I am the oblation, I am the sacrifice, I the offering, the fire-giving herb, the mantram; also the clarified butter, the fire, and the burnt-offering.
-- (IX: 16)

Before saying this, Lord Krishna in the Gita has said: (IX: 9)
Nor do these works bind me, O Dhananjaya, enthroned on high, unattached to actions.

Besides this: (XIV: 23) He who, seated as a neutral, is unshaken by the qualities (gunas), who stands apart immovable saying, ‘the gunas revolve’.

And: (XIV: 24) Balanced in pleasure and pain, self-reliant, to whom a lump of earth, rock, and gold are alike, the same to loved and unloved, firm, the same in censure and in praise.

And again: (XVI: 25) The same in honour and dishonour, the same to friend and foe, abandoning all undertakings — he is said to have crossed over the qualities (gunas).

“That is what has been stated. The Mahapurushas (great personages) mentioned above, are realised souls. Whatever outward shape they may have, sishya (disciple), bhakta (devotee), udaseena (the unconcerned) and papatma (sinner), all the people in these four categories are protected through the grace of the Jnanis. The sishyas worship them as gurus, ascertain the truth and attain mukti (freedom from bondage). Bhaktas pray to them as the swarupa (form) of God and get release from their sins. Udaseenas listen to what the Guru says, get enthused and become devotees. Sinners hear the stories from people that come and go and get release from their sins. People in these four categories are protected by the grace of Jnanis,” said Bhagavan.

Someone said, “You said that bad people will be released from their sins. Is that by listening to what others say or bytalking amongst themselves?” “It is by hearing what others say. They are sinners, aren’t they? How will they talk about good people?” said Bhagavan.

Yesterday’s questioner asked, “You said sinners will get released. Does that mean from their bodily or mental ailments?” “It is for the mind only,”

Bhagavan replied, “happiness is possible only if the mind is right. If the mind is not right, whatever else may be, there is no peace. The mind becomes ripe according to each person’s fitness. A nastik (an agnostic) becomes an astik (a believer), an astik becomes a bhakta, a bhakta becomes a jignasu (one desirous of Knowledge) and a jignasu becomes a Jnani. This refers to the mind only. What is the use of saying it refers to the body? If the mind is happy, not only the body but the whole world will be happy. So one must find out the way of becoming happy oneself. One cannot do this except by finding out about oneself by Self-enquiry. To think of reforming the world without doing that is like thinking of covering the whole world with leather to avoid the pain caused by walking on stones and thorns when the much simpler method of wearing leather shoes is available. When by holding an umbrella over your head you can avoid the sun, will it be possible to cover the face of the whole earth by tying a cloth over it to avoid the sun? If a person realises his position and stays in his own self, things that are to happen will happen. Things that are not to happen will not happen. The shakti that is in the world, is only one. All these troubles arise if we think that we are separate from that shakti.”

Letter 115

(115) THE SHAKTI THAT IS, IS ONE
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16th May, 1947
Like the young man of yesterday, a North Indian gentleman handed over to Bhagavan a letter full of questions, chief amongst them being why Bhagavan does not try to improve the welfare of the world. After reading it Bhagavan said, looking at those near, “Yesterday also we had the same type of question. It is enough if all these people who preach about working for the welfare of the world, first work for their own welfare. Unable to enquire who they are and know that, they think of reforming the world. They must first find out who it is that is thinking thus. They don’t do that. And they say, they will reform the world. It is just like the story of the lame man.”

That questioner said, “Swami, how can Jnanis like you sit quiet without moving? When there is strife and turmoil in the world, should they not help in establishing peace?”

Bhagavan replied, “Yes, they should, but how do you know that Jnanis are not rendering any help? Their remaining where they are is itself a help to the world. To all outward appearances they seem to be doing nothing. Supposing there is a wealthy man. In his dream he goes about begging, works as a coolly and sweeps the streets. When he wakes up, he realises that he is not that sort of person and remains dignified in the thought that he is a wealthy man. In the same manner, a Jnani may do anything according to his prarabdha (fate) but he remains unattached and maintains a dignified aloofness. His shakti works in many ways but he does not feel happy or unhappy over the success or failure of his efforts. That is because he sees the world as full of Brahman and so nothing appears to him to be happy or unhappy. How can he have feelings of gratification or sorrow when he does not feel that he is in this body, that he is in this man or that this is the world?

Accordingly it is said: ‘dristim jnanamayeem kritva pasyeth Brahmamayam jagath’, when a person gains the outlook of a Jnani that very moment everything appears to be full of Brahman. Where then is room for the feeling ‘I am doing?’ They will then realise that everything is going on through the force of some shakti.

That is all,” said Bhagavan.

Another person said, “Jnanis are said to be capable of cursing and giving boons. You are saying that they have nothing to do. How is that?” Bhagavan replied, “Yes. Who said they are not capable? But they do not have the feeling that they are one thing and the shakti or Ishwara is another.

The force, that is, is only one. They realise that they are moving because of that shakti and keep themselves from the feeling that they are the doers. Their presence itself is of use to the world. They do whatever acts they have to in accordance with their prarabdha. That is all.”