(137) BEYOND THE THREE STATES
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6th September, 1947
Last month, during my sister-in-law’s stay here, the proofs of the Telugu version of the ‘Vichara Mani Mala’ (Self-enquiry) were received. In the afternoon Bhagavan corrected them and passed them on to me. On reading them, my sister-in- law asked me the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti. I tried to explain, but as I was not sure myself, I could not satisfy her fully. On noticing this, Bhagavan asked, “What is the matter? Is there a mistake?” I replied, “No. She is asking the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti.”
Bhagavan said kindly, “It means absolute, dreamless sleep.”
I asked, “Would it be true to say that a Jnani has no dreams?”
Bhagavan: “He has no dream-state.”
My sister-in-law was still not satisfied, but as people began to talk about other things, we had to leave the matter there. Only at night she said, “In the Vasishtam [1] it is stated that a Realized Soul appears to perform actions, but they do not affect him at all. We ought to have asked Bhagavan the real meaning of this.”
On going to the Ashram next morning, it so happened that Bhagavan was just then explaining the very point to Sundaresa Iyer. Eagerly availing herself of the opportunity, my sister-in-law again asked, “Bhagavan has stated that Swapnatyanta nivritti means absolute, dreamless sleep. Does it mean that a Jnani does not have dreams at all?”
[1- Yoga Vasishtam is a book on yoga by Vasishta Maharshi.]
Bhagavan: “It is not only the dream-state, but all three states are unreal to the Jnani. The real state of the Jnani is where none of these three states exists.”
I asked, “Is not the waking state also equivalent to a dream?”
Bhagavan: “Yes, whereas a dream lasts for a short time, the waking state lasts longer. That is the only difference.”
I: “Then deep sleep is also a dream?”
Bhagavan: “No, deep sleep is an actuality. How can it be a dream when there is no mental activity? However, since it is a state of mental vacuity, it is nescience (avidya) and must therefore be rejected.” I persisted, “But is not deep sleep also said to be a dream state?”
Bhagavan: “Some may have said so for the sake of terminology, but really there is nothing separate. Short or long duration applies only to the dream and waking states.
Someone may say: ‘we have lived so long and these houses and belongings are so clearly evident to us that it surely can’t be all a dream’. But we have to remember that even dreams seem long while they last. It is only when you wake up that you realize that they only lasted a short time. In the same way, when one attains Realization (jnana), this life is seen to be momentary. Dreamless sleep means nescience; therefore it is to be rejected in favour of the state of pure Awareness.”
My sister-in-law then interposed, “It is said that the bliss that occurs in deep sleep is experienced in the state of samadhi [2] as well, but how is that to be reconciled with the statement that deep sleep is a state of nescience?”
[2- Samadhi means perfect absorption of thought in the one object of meditation, i.e., the Supreme Spirit (the 8th and last stage of yoga).]
Bhagavan: “That is why deep sleep has also to be rejected. It is true that there is bliss in deep sleep, but one is not aware of it. One only knows about it afterwards when one wakes up and says that one has slept well. Samadhi means experiencing this bliss while remaining awake.”
I: “So it means waking, or conscious sleep?”
Bhagavan: “Yes, that’s it.”
My sister-in-law then brought up the other cognate question that had worried her: “It is said by Vasishta that a Realized Soul seems to others to be engaged in various activities, but he is not affected by them at all. Is it because of their different outlook that it seems so to others, or is he really unaffected?”
Bhagavan: “He is really unaffected.”
My sister-in-law: “People speak of favourable visions, both in dream and while awake; what are they”?
Bhagavan: “To a Realized Soul they all seem the same.” However she persisted, “It is stated in Bhagavan’s biography that Ganapati Muni had a vision of Bhagavan when he was at Tiruvottiyur and Bhagavan was at Tiruvannamalai, and that, at the very same time, Bhagavan had a feeling of accepting homage. How can such things be explained?”
Bhagavan answered cryptically, “I have already stated that such things are what are known as divine visions.” He was then silent, indicating that he was not willing to continue the talk any further.
Showing posts with label dreams. Show all posts
Showing posts with label dreams. Show all posts
Letter 110
(110) VISIONS IN DREAM
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17th April, 1947
The day before yesterday at about 8 or 9 in the morning, an elderly man of a middle class family, who knew Ayurveda, came to Bhagavan, prostrated before him and said, “Swami, this is good for phlegm, take it.” He wanted to give some medicine. When the attendants tried to prevent him from giving it, Bhagavan stopped them, took the medicine, and told the attendants, “Look, he used to give me some medicine or other now and then from the time I was living on the hill. Let him give it. Perhaps he has had some dream.” With evident pleasure, the old man said, “I have not had any dream now, Swami. You used to have excess of phlegm at this time of the year, didn’t you? So I have brought it.” So saying he bowed and went away.
As soon as he left, a devotee sitting near Bhagavan asked, “What about the dream you referred to?” Bhagavan replied: “Oh that! While living on the hill, one evening I casually asked Palaniswamy if he had a lime fruit. He said, ‘No’. ‘If so, don’t worry’, I said. It seems that very night this person dreamt that I had asked him for a lime fruit. Next morning, as I came out he was already there and said, ‘Swami, take this lime fruit!’ ‘Yesterday, I asked him (Palaniswamy) if he had one. How did you know about it?’ I asked. In reply, he said, ‘You appeared to me in my dream and told me that you wanted a lime fruit. That is why I have brought it now’; and he placed the fruit in my hand. That is how it happened.” The devotee asked, “Is it a fact that Bhagavan appeared to him in a dream?” Bhagavan replied with a smile, “I don’t know. Who knows? He said so. That is all.” Another devotee asked, “K. K. Nambiar’s notebook also happened to be brought here in the same way, isn’t it?” Bhagavan replied, “Yes, that is so. At that time Madhavan was here. I was telling him to take out from the bureau a long notebook with a black cover so that I could write a commentary on Sri Ramana Gita in Malayalam and copy it out in that notebook. He said he would get it but forgot about it for four or five days. Meanwhile Nambiar came here and gave me a notebook of the exact size and description I was asking for. When I asked him how it was that he had brought a notebook of the sort I was asking for, he said, ‘Bhagavan appeared to me in a dream and asked me for a notebook, describing the number of pages, the breadth and length. When I went to the shop, I found one of the exact description. I have brought it.’ In the meantime, Madhavan came. I said to him, ‘Look, here is the book. You have given it to me, haven’t you?’ He was surprised and, remembering my instructions, took out my notebook from the bureau which was found to be exactly of the same size. It was just sufficient for Sri Ramana Gita with the slokas and the commentary. As soon as that work was over, Nambiar came and took it away, saying he would get it printed but at the same time hesitated to hand over the book containing Bhagavan’s handwriting to the press. So, he got another copy made, which he sent to the press and kept the original himself. It must still be with him.
Even Rajagopalan did almost the same thing once. As the stock of our ink was finished I told the people here once or twice to replenish it. The next day or the day after he brought a big jar of ink while returning from some place. When I asked him how he came to know that the ink was needed here, he said that Bhagavan appeared to him in a dream and told him that ink was needed. ‘So I brought it,’ he said. That is how things happen from time to time,” said Bhagavan.
That devotee said, “They say that Bhagavan himself told them. Is that a fact?” Bhagavan replied, “What do I know? They said so. That is all.” The devotee again said, “Even so, isn’t it surprising that what was needed here should be seen by them in a dream?” Bhagavan nodded his head in approval and kept quiet.
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17th April, 1947
The day before yesterday at about 8 or 9 in the morning, an elderly man of a middle class family, who knew Ayurveda, came to Bhagavan, prostrated before him and said, “Swami, this is good for phlegm, take it.” He wanted to give some medicine. When the attendants tried to prevent him from giving it, Bhagavan stopped them, took the medicine, and told the attendants, “Look, he used to give me some medicine or other now and then from the time I was living on the hill. Let him give it. Perhaps he has had some dream.” With evident pleasure, the old man said, “I have not had any dream now, Swami. You used to have excess of phlegm at this time of the year, didn’t you? So I have brought it.” So saying he bowed and went away.
As soon as he left, a devotee sitting near Bhagavan asked, “What about the dream you referred to?” Bhagavan replied: “Oh that! While living on the hill, one evening I casually asked Palaniswamy if he had a lime fruit. He said, ‘No’. ‘If so, don’t worry’, I said. It seems that very night this person dreamt that I had asked him for a lime fruit. Next morning, as I came out he was already there and said, ‘Swami, take this lime fruit!’ ‘Yesterday, I asked him (Palaniswamy) if he had one. How did you know about it?’ I asked. In reply, he said, ‘You appeared to me in my dream and told me that you wanted a lime fruit. That is why I have brought it now’; and he placed the fruit in my hand. That is how it happened.” The devotee asked, “Is it a fact that Bhagavan appeared to him in a dream?” Bhagavan replied with a smile, “I don’t know. Who knows? He said so. That is all.” Another devotee asked, “K. K. Nambiar’s notebook also happened to be brought here in the same way, isn’t it?” Bhagavan replied, “Yes, that is so. At that time Madhavan was here. I was telling him to take out from the bureau a long notebook with a black cover so that I could write a commentary on Sri Ramana Gita in Malayalam and copy it out in that notebook. He said he would get it but forgot about it for four or five days. Meanwhile Nambiar came here and gave me a notebook of the exact size and description I was asking for. When I asked him how it was that he had brought a notebook of the sort I was asking for, he said, ‘Bhagavan appeared to me in a dream and asked me for a notebook, describing the number of pages, the breadth and length. When I went to the shop, I found one of the exact description. I have brought it.’ In the meantime, Madhavan came. I said to him, ‘Look, here is the book. You have given it to me, haven’t you?’ He was surprised and, remembering my instructions, took out my notebook from the bureau which was found to be exactly of the same size. It was just sufficient for Sri Ramana Gita with the slokas and the commentary. As soon as that work was over, Nambiar came and took it away, saying he would get it printed but at the same time hesitated to hand over the book containing Bhagavan’s handwriting to the press. So, he got another copy made, which he sent to the press and kept the original himself. It must still be with him.
Even Rajagopalan did almost the same thing once. As the stock of our ink was finished I told the people here once or twice to replenish it. The next day or the day after he brought a big jar of ink while returning from some place. When I asked him how he came to know that the ink was needed here, he said that Bhagavan appeared to him in a dream and told him that ink was needed. ‘So I brought it,’ he said. That is how things happen from time to time,” said Bhagavan.
That devotee said, “They say that Bhagavan himself told them. Is that a fact?” Bhagavan replied, “What do I know? They said so. That is all.” The devotee again said, “Even so, isn’t it surprising that what was needed here should be seen by them in a dream?” Bhagavan nodded his head in approval and kept quiet.
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